Audio recording of visitors to home

[Paul Nutteing (valid email address in post script )]

(a) personal friends
(b) council staff on official business eg. social worker
(c) meter readers for utility companies
I would say I do not need permission.
Even if two people are talking and I am not supposed to hear the
discussion, it takes part in my home and it is not a public place.
Furthermore, if I had a security camera then it would record the same
info.
Am I correct?
Would it matter if it was video as opposed to audio recording?
Would I need a notice on the front door?

It is only right and proper that you record
any phone conversations or face-to-face
dealings with social workers.
In their normal operation they usually
have to lie to one party or the other,
and you can easily be that lied-to party.
They try to operate verbally, rather than
in writing , as considered less chance
of being caught out, less attributable (normally).

As a result of recording phone calls etc
I caught out corrupt lying Wiltshire social workers,
Stella Maria Constant & John Barton Stoddart,
acting in a conspiracy in an attempt
to prosecute myself, failed, in great
part, to my having recorded all dealings with
the slimey shite.

Exposed on the web, with others, for their corrupt plottings.


ps
What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing.chat.ru/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine.

Valid email ***@fastmail.....fm (remove 4 of the 5 dots)
Ignore any other apparent em address used to post this message -
it is defunct due to spam.

[Andy]

I own my house. Do I need any permission to record visitors such
as: (a) personal friends (b) council staff on official business
eg. social worker (c) meter readers for utility companies.
I would say I do not need permission.
Even if two people are talking and I am not supposed to hear the
discussion, it takes part in my home and it is not a public place.
Furthermore, if I had a security camera then it would record the
same info.
Am I correct?
Would it matter if it was video as opposed to audio recording?
Would I need a notice on the front door?

It is only right and proper that you record any phone conversations
or face-to-face dealings with social workers. In their normal
operation they usually have to lie to one party or the other, and
you can easily be that lied-to party. They try to operate verbally,
rather than in writing , as considered less chance of being caught
out, less attributable (normally).
As a result of recording phone calls etc I caught out corrupt lying
Wiltshire social workers, Stella Maria Constant & John Barton
Stoddart, acting in a conspiracy in an attempt to prosecute myself,
failed, in great part, to my having recorded all dealings with the
slimey shite.
Exposed on the web, with others, for their corrupt plottings.

Hello Paul

From what I recall of reading parts of your website, you have been the
victim of some real shit. What's worse you were then denied due process
to get things remedied.

In reading about your case, I was appalled at how social workers misused
their power, misued their knowledge of the system, and misused the
authority invested in them. They brought al that to bear in their
attempt to deny you your rights.

Oddly enough, I did have a very brief email exchange with you about a
year or so ago and your post now brings your case into focus once more.
If it's ok, I'll email you again because I would like to know how to
remain alert to abusive social services practises before they occur.

I sense your own battles may still not be over.

Andy

PS - As an aside, I think the day of recording has arrived. Not all
portable music players will record but it's not too hard to find one for
£15 or £20 that will do so. Mobile phones now record as do PDAs, portable
PCs, digital cameras, etc.

What once needed expensive equipment is now much easier and affordable.

You could make a recording all day long from waking up to going to sleep
and the flash memory needed would not cost more than a fiver or a tenner.

[Andy]

I own my house. Do I need any permission to record visitors such
(a) personal friends
(b) council staff on official business eg. social worker
(c) meter readers for utility companies
I would say I do not need permission.  
Even if two people are talking and I am not supposed to hear the
discussion, it takes part in my home and it is not a public place.
Furthermore, if I had a security camera then it would record the
same info.
Am I correct?
Would it matter if it was video as opposed to audio recording?
Would I need a notice on the front door?

As a private individual, you can record any conversation that you
are part of, without telling the other parties involved that they
are being recorded. You cannot record people who are talking where
your presence is not known to them or you are not involved in their
conversation.
I strongly advise recording conversations, telephone or otherwise
with anyone you are doing business with especially power companies,
banks, garages, builders, double glazing, insurance and financial
companies etc.
Record any person you are in dispute with.
Also record police, doctors, hospitals and anyone who may claim you
didn't tell them something that you did, or who may fail to act on
the information you give with potential serious consequences.
Although the recorded evidence may not later become evidence as
such, you can make a transcript of it and then produce an affidavit
at the local court to say that the transcript is true. If the other
party then challenges that, the recording can then be used in
evidence.
Always carefully date and time your recordings and be prepared to
store them for a long time as it can be years later that you wish
you had. A good example of this is my dealings with the 3 mobile
phone company who repeatedly tried to cheat me. On one occasion in
particular they sent me a replacement phone as the first had been
faulty. They promised me that there was definitely no new contract
being made. One year later when I tried to leave them, they claimed
that a new contract had been made on replacement of my phone. I
simply played them there own voices down the phone and they backed
down straight away. I am sure that this policy of recording
conversations in the same way that companies record you, can save
you a lot of time, money and stress in the long run. IANAL
BIDHAPFPA.
Turk182

Hello Turk182

Thank you for a most useful reply!

I had seen the following sorts of info but they did not quite include my
situation. You address my actual situation more closely.

"Am I allowed to record my own telephone conversations?" This question
comes up time and time again in Usenet newsgroups. Usually, as is typical
with Usenet, people claim one thing, but offer no evidence, then someone
else claims the opposite. http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/record.htm

"Tape recording admissibility all at sea"
http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_id=2099&parent_id=2091
This is a surprisingly hard question The courts are torn in several
different directions, by conflicting policy considerations and
legislation.

Alan

[Iain]

Post by Andy

I own my house. Do I need any permission to record visitors such
(a) personal friends
(b) council staff on official business eg. social worker
(c) meter readers for utility companies
I would say I do not need permission.
Even if two people are talking and I am not supposed to hear the
discussion, it takes part in my home and it is not a public place.
Furthermore, if I had a security camera then it would record the
same info.
Am I correct?
Would it matter if it was video as opposed to audio recording?
Would I need a notice on the front door?

As a private individual, you can record any conversation that you
are part of, without telling the other parties involved that they
are being recorded. You cannot record people who are talking where
your presence is not known to them or you are not involved in their
conversation.
I strongly advise recording conversations, telephone or otherwise
with anyone you are doing business with especially power companies,
banks, garages, builders, double glazing, insurance and financial
companies etc.
Record any person you are in dispute with.
Also record police, doctors, hospitals and anyone who may claim you
didn't tell them something that you did, or who may fail to act on
the information you give with potential serious consequences.
Although the recorded evidence may not later become evidence as
such, you can make a transcript of it and then produce an affidavit
at the local court to say that the transcript is true. If the other
party then challenges that, the recording can then be used in
evidence.
Always carefully date and time your recordings and be prepared to
store them for a long time as it can be years later that you wish
you had. A good example of this is my dealings with the 3 mobile
phone company who repeatedly tried to cheat me. On one occasion in
particular they sent me a replacement phone as the first had been
faulty. They promised me that there was definitely no new contract
being made. One year later when I tried to leave them, they claimed
that a new contract had been made on replacement of my phone. I
simply played them there own voices down the phone and they backed
down straight away. I am sure that this policy of recording
conversations in the same way that companies record you, can save
you a lot of time, money and stress in the long run. IANAL
BIDHAPFPA.
Turk182

Hello Turk182
Thank you for a most useful reply!
I had seen the following sorts of info but they did not quite include my
situation. You address my actual situation more closely.
"Am I allowed to record my own telephone conversations?" This question
comes up time and time again in Usenet newsgroups. Usually, as is typical
with Usenet, people claim one thing, but offer no evidence, then someone
else claims the opposite. http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/record.htm
"Tape recording admissibility all at sea"
http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_id=2099&parent_id=2091
This is a surprisingly hard question The courts are torn in several
different directions, by conflicting policy considerations and
legislation.
Alan
--
PS: I have widened the groups from just uk.legal
social work (to record)
telecom (technology)

Be very cautious about what you read in your first link (seg.co.uk) - the
information is VERY out of date (over 7 years!).

It is correct that you can record your own conversations without letting the
other party know, but there are limitations as to what you can do with that
recording, eg. you are not able to disclose it to a third party without the
other party's consent. This also has implications in court proceedings.
Using a transcript is a 'sort of' way around this.

Your second link is more up-to-date, but it does not seem to be absolutely
clear when it is talking about interceptions - whether these are for your
own conversations or not.

As you seem to have found out, there are many answers. Many of these could
well be correct, and some of these could be generalisations. It all depends
on the specific circumstances.

IANAL
Iain

[Emil Tiades]

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 03:20:27 -0000, "Iain" <***@smaps.net> wrote:

<huge snip>

Post by Iain
It is correct that you can record your own conversations without letting the
other party know, but there are limitations as to what you can do with that
recording, eg. you are not able to disclose it to a third party without the
other party's consent.

Doesn't stop the Sun and other gutter rags, though

[Turk182]

Post by Emil Tiades
<huge snip>

Post by Iain
It is correct that you can record your own conversations without letting the
other party know, but there are limitations as to what you can do with that
recording, eg. you are not able to disclose it to a third party without the
other party's consent.  

Doesn't stop the Sun and other gutter rags, though

You cannot use the other person's recorded VOICE (for example to
broadcast it although it may be justified without the other person's
permission if they deny they said something and you are trying to
prove dishonesty), however you are free to repeat what the other
person said to you if it is true. If the person believes you are
spreading falsehood they are free to challenge that legally as a
slander. The onus is on the individual not to say something they will
later deny (unless you are bound by a contract of confidentiality and
they are not breaking any laws).

IANAL but I do think we have to be guided by what is reasonable. A
company such as an insurance company does not want to enter into a
dispute about what you may or may not have said, so they record the
call. I believe it is entirely reasonable for us to take the same
view, kind though it may be, we are not required to notify the other
party if we are not operating as a business.

Lots of companies make it even easier to justify recording the call
with them as they frequently begin the call with the term "calls may
be recorded" - even handier because they omit to say by whom.

Energy company E-on are the latest people to suffer from making casual
incentives without delivering. I was promised an ‘energy monitor’ in
a phone call if I went to a particular tariff. Having changed, no
'energy monitor' was received. When I called them about it they told
me the 'energy monitor' was for a different tariff. I have now given
them 14 days

:-)

Turk182

[Iain]

Post by Emil Tiades
<huge snip>

Post by Iain
It is correct that you can record your own conversations without letting the
other party know, but there are limitations as to what you can do with that
recording, eg. you are not able to disclose it to a third party without the
other party's consent.

Doesn't stop the Sun and other gutter rags, though

You cannot use the other person's recorded VOICE (for example to
broadcast it although it may be justified without the other person's
permission if they deny they said something and you are trying to
prove dishonesty), however you are free to repeat what the other
person said to you if it is true. If the person believes you are
spreading falsehood they are free to challenge that legally as a
slander. The onus is on the individual not to say something they will
later deny (unless you are bound by a contract of confidentiality and
they are not breaking any laws).

IANAL but I do think we have to be guided by what is reasonable. A
company such as an insurance company does not want to enter into a
dispute about what you may or may not have said, so they record the
call. I believe it is entirely reasonable for us to take the same
view, kind though it may be, we are not required to notify the other
party if we are not operating as a business.

Lots of companies make it even easier to justify recording the call
with them as they frequently begin the call with the term "calls may
be recorded" - even handier because they omit to say by whom.

Energy company E-on are the latest people to suffer from making casual
incentives without delivering. I was promised an ‘energy monitor’ in
a phone call if I went to a particular tariff. Having changed, no
'energy monitor' was received. When I called them about it they told
me the 'energy monitor' was for a different tariff. I have now given
them 14 days

:-)

Turk182

===============

Good for you!

I find that some companies exploit the power that they feel that they have
over us, particularly during telephone conversations. However if you say
that you are recording the conversation, that seems to upset them, it takes
the power from them and quite often they make excuses to end the call. It's
all right for them to record us, but they frequently do not like it when we
record them!

Iain

[Retired]

I strongly advise recording conversations, telephone or otherwise
with anyone you are doing business with especially power companies,
banks, garages, builders, double glazing, insurance and financial
companies etc.
Record any person you are in dispute with.
Also record police, doctors, hospitals and anyone who may claim you
didn't tell them something that you did, or who may fail to act on
the information you give with potential serious consequences.
Always carefully date and time your recordings and be prepared to
store them for a long time as it can be years later that you wish
you had. >>
Turk182

Can anyone suggest the best / sensibly priced equipment for achieving this?
B.

[Turk182]

Post by Retired

I strongly advise recording conversations, telephone or otherwise
with anyone you are doing business with especially power companies,
banks, garages, builders, double glazing, insurance and financial
companies etc.
Record any person you are in dispute with.
Also record police, doctors, hospitals and anyone who may claim you
didn't tell them something that you did, or who may fail to act on
the information you give with potential serious consequences.
Always carefully date and time your recordings and be prepared to
store them for a long time as it can be years later that you wish
you had.    >>
Turk182

Can anyone suggest the best / sensibly priced equipment for achieving this?
B.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/2581_WS-320M.htm
This is also available with less though adequate memory if you want to
bring the price down. The unit makes excellent stereo recordings of
live conversation.

Shop around for the best price - Olympus used to offer a 3 year free
replacement guarantee with it - I don't know if they still do.
Operates with just 1 AAA battery.

And with this:

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/2587_TP-7_Telephone_Pick-up.htm

you have an ideal way of recording the calls you make or receive on
both landline and mobile phones. (Be careful with the little rubber
grommet on the earpiece - it can fall off although they do put a spare
in the box).

Other people may have far more economical solutions.

Turk182

[judith]

On Sat, 8 Nov 2008 14:17:13 -0000, "Retired" <***@bprivacy.com>
wrote:

<snip>

Post by Retired
Can anyone suggest the best / sensibly priced equipment for achieving this?
B.

I use a sony icdp520 - very good - good software - USB link.

Should be less than forty quid.