Discussion:
'Satanic Abuse'
(too old to reply)
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
from
http://www.sundayherald.com/43347

'We were accused of raping little girls, having orgies, killing cats and
chickens and drinking their blood ... it was all lies but they wouldn't
believe us'

Exclusive: The full story of the families whose lives were shattered when
they were falsely accused of abusing children on a remote Scottish island.
For the past nine months Vicky Allan has been talking to the families
accused and finally cleared of being involved in the ritual abuse of
children on Lewis. This is their story .


Espose of dangerous and corrupt Wiltshire social services
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/nutteing3.htm
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Steve Walker
21 years ago
Permalink
...
Amazing, innit? This satanic abuse myth just keeps coming back,
regardless of it having been wholly discredited on every occasion it's
been investigated. But what hope is there in a society where so many
people still hold primitive superstitions (faith-healing, gods, angels,
star-signs etc)?
Brave New Britain
21 years ago
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:25:49 +0100, "Steve Walker"
...
I think it's the child abuse myth that "just keeps coming back"; the
satanic (or ritual) element is just to make it more interesting.
--
Brave New Britain
Dan Sullivan
21 years ago
Permalink
...
Just to demonstrate how "over the top" these people in child protection can
be, way back in the Kelly Michaels case in New Jersey the chief expert
witness for the prosecution, Eileen Treacy, had her own ideas on what
constituted evidence of child sexual abuse.

Her hypothesis was... if the child used to like eating tuna fish and no
longer liked tuna fish it was because they were forced to have oral sex with
a woman because everyone knows that a woman's...

I got that bit of info, I believe, from the Wall Street Journal.

Kelly Michaels conviction was overturned.

And Eileen Treacy is still called on by prosecutors as an expert in child
sexual abuse.
Steve Walker
21 years ago
Permalink
...
I'm not sure what you mean by "child abuse myth"?
Brave New Britain
21 years ago
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 15:52:17 +0100, "Steve Walker"
...
It's the myth that the country is teaming with predators eager to grab
children off the street.

That the slightest touch of a child (interpreted as sexual by an
adult) will do irreparable harm to any child.

That the slightest suspicion of abuse by parents should lead to the
child being taken away and put into foster care and prevented from
having any contact with his/her parents for months or years.
--
Brave New Britain
Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Brave New Britain
It's the myth that the country is teaming with predators eager to grab
children off the street.
That the slightest touch of a child (interpreted as sexual by an
adult) will do irreparable harm to any child.
That the slightest suspicion of abuse by parents should lead to the
child being taken away and put into foster care and prevented from
having any contact with his/her parents for months or years.
Also add in the Child Porn scam, the Care Homes scam, the School abuse
scam, Scouting abuse scam, and the forthcoming (probably) Medical
Practitioner abuse scam and Vicar scam (not Catholics specifically)

Most of these are driven by people who have vested interests in them being
true. It is crap.
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
...
I've not come across this psycho-babble before,- " therapy " ?
Quote from the article
The victims had been in disclosure therapy with National Children's Home
(NCH) and the social service. There are guidelines for this, but, Thomson
says, they are often not followed and the truth is determined using a series
of validity indicators.
End Quote
"validity indicators" is presumably part of so-called
"evidence-based social work"

What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

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Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Paul Nutteing
I've not come across this psycho-babble before,- " therapy " ?
Quote from the article
The victims had been in disclosure therapy with National Children's Home
(NCH) and the social service. There are guidelines for this, but, Thomson
says, they are often not followed and the truth is determined using a series
of validity indicators.
End Quote
"validity indicators" is presumably part of so-called
"evidence-based social work"
What they do is feed them answers, and if the child nods or something it's
deemed (from a Police viewpoint) that they have originated the statements.

And, yes, I have personal experience of this.
Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
...
My wife was labelled a child abuser by Dorset purely through this:

They used closed and leading statements
They used emotive statements such as "we know XXXXX hates you..."
Then they used a bifurcated statement that the child agreed to but the
clarification of which section of the "question" cum statement was never
qualified so it was seen she was agreeing to being beaten up when she was
agreeing to something else completely.
6 months of hell that cost me but they had to retract the accusation as my
daughter finding out how they manipulated her told the social worker
straight and in front of witnesses she had never said she was being beaten
up.

Even though it was all retracted and I have a letter stating so, my wife who
doesn't live with me any more, her career is in tatters, she was a committee
member of SureStart SW, active community manager on a large council estate,
manager of Boredom Busters for Bournemouth Council and was awarded by the
Mayor and Mayoress of Bournemouth for her dedicated work with children.

Totally wrecked career...

AO
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
...
Belfast
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3851561.stm
Brighton
Social workers sacked after death of boy
Two social workers criticised over the death of a four-year-old boy have
been sacked.
David Pamely and John Barrow ...
from
http://www.thisisbrightonandhove.co.uk/brighton__hove/archive/2002/07/30/NEW
S40ZM.html

What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

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Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Paul Nutteing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3851561.stm
Brighton
Social workers sacked after death of boy
Two social workers criticised over the death of a four-year-old boy have
been sacked.
David Pamely and John Barrow ...
That's unusual. Here in Norfolk we've had a whole string of deaths for
which SSD have been criticised, culminating in Lauren Wright (but not
finishing with Lauren Wright).

I think some frontliner did quit, but no-one's been sacked, nor have they
really taken any responsibility at all.
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
...
Someone from Dorset was snagged by this Lewis crap.
from
http://www.edinburghnews.com/index.cfm?id=1097532003
03 Oct 2003


What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

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Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Paul Nutteing
Someone from Dorset was snagged by this Lewis crap.
from
http://www.edinburghnews.com/index.cfm?id=1097532003
03 Oct 2003
You aren't up to speed on this one. SSD and the Pigs have dropped all
charges, due to lack of evidence. Needless to say, the word "Sorry" was
not used.
Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
Hi guys

Thanks for the links Paul, there is a special "thanks" on my site especially
for gettng the Purcell link.

I heard the Dorset had nicked people over these islander abuse things but I
have not been able to catch up on it at all.

I would like to hear about the deaths in Norfolk though, that is an
interesting lead that I could make some headway with as I am opening a
dossier into avoidable deaths in their hands and the attendant coverups that
always follow.

Did anyone notice the tories trying to grab the fathers vote?

Its not enough to give them contact if the system is still corrupt, all will
happen is that social services will make sure "undesireable" fathers are
labelled clearly as thus and they still won't get contact.

Its got to come down in the end to unrefuteable evidence from these
bastards, smoking gun evidence is hard to avoid and it will weed out the
worst cases straight away, the SS go after people like me because we are
weak targets and easy to deal with.

AO
RPSSUK
Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ancient One
I would like to hear about the deaths in Norfolk though, that is an
interesting lead that I could make some headway with as I am opening a
dossier into avoidable deaths in their hands and the attendant coverups
that always follow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/382083.stm gives details of three, one
specifically. (Bebbington, Mackin, Creed)

http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/News/story.asp?datetime=30+Mar+2004+
08%3A44&tbrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=EDPOnline
&itemid=NOED30+Mar+2004+08%3A44%3A48%3A810

The most recent, Portia White.

Lauren Wright, of course.

And locally rumours (from people who would know) persist, supported by one
national newspaper, of negligence in the death of Daniel Entwhistle.
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
...
UK Social Service Departments victims' tombstone reads

1945
Dennis O'Neil, 13, was beaten to death by his foster father, Shropshire.
1973
Maria Colwell, seven, died in Brighton after being starved and beaten by her
stepfather, William Kepple.
1984
Jasmine Beckford was starved and battered to death by her stepfather,
Maurice Beckford.
1984
Tyra Henry died after being battered and bitten by her father, Andrew Neil,
while in local authority care, Lambeth
1984
Heidi Koseda starved to death in a locked room in Hillingdon, west London.
1986
Kimberley Carlile, four, was starved and beaten to death in Greenwich.
1987
Doreen Mason died of neglect after her mother and her boyfriend bruised,
burnt and broke the 16-month-old's leg then failed to have her injuries
treated. Southwark.
1992
Leanne White, three, was beaten to death by her stepfather, Colin Sleate,
Nottinghamshire.
1994
Rikki Neave, six, was found strangled by his coat zipper in a wood near
Peterborough.
1998
Kristian Bebbington, 4 month old ,Norfolk
1999
Lauren Creed,5 yearold, murdered by Graham Sate with complicity of mother
Sharon Creed,Coltishall Norfolk
1999
Chelsea Brown, two, was battered to death by her father Robert Brown,
Derbyshire.
1999
John Anthony Smith,beaten to death, Brighton.
1999
Joseph Mackin, 5 months, murdered by childminder Helen Stacey, N Walsham
Norfolk
2000
Victoria Climbié, eight, died from hypothermia in a tiny flat in
Tottenham,north London.
2000
Lauren Wright, six, was found dead after suffering a fatal punch or kick
from her stepmother, Tracey Wright, Norfolk.
2002
Ainlee Labonte, two, was starved and tortured to death by her vicious
parents, Leanne Labonte and Dennis Henry, Plaidstow, east London.
2003
Toni-Ann Byfield,7 years, shot in gangland killing, while in care of
violent crook Bertram Byfield

RIP

UNLIKE social worker usual practise I have not included in the list
uncorroborated/ hearsay 'evidence'.

Exposing corrupt and incompetent Wiltshire
Social Services personel.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/nutteing3.htm
or nutteing3 in a search engine

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Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
Thanks guys, this is very good stuff (not good for the poor kids though)

Graham Sate - Norfolk? I know the name, but can't place where..... There
was a bloke called Clifford Sate who lived in Lowestoft/Gorleston who's
brother was called Graham and owned a scrapyard, dunno if that's the same
one or not.

I used to know the villagers at Cantley in Norfolk and they were always
talking about "dark" doings with the council but would never let on..

AO
RPSSUK
Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ancient One
Thanks guys, this is very good stuff (not good for the poor kids though)
Graham Sate - Norfolk?  I know the name, but can't place where.....  There
was a bloke called Clifford Sate who lived in Lowestoft/Gorleston who's
brother was called Graham and owned a scrapyard, dunno if that's the same
one or not.
I used to know the villagers at Cantley in Norfolk and they were always
talking about "dark" doings with the council but would never let on..
Norfolk has a very good news archive at the EDP website (our local paper)
www.edp24.co.uk with a search engine.
Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
Yes, it is a good site and bookmarked now for future reference.

I read the sad story of Daniel Entwistle, will they ever get to the bottom
of it?

I remember the Marie Caldwell incident and one that social services are
always trying to forget.

Its still not good enough for our children though, these people are supposed
to be responsible and any tragedies are unacceptable.

Why isn't the NSPCC aiming their full stop program at social services

AO
Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ancient One
Yes, it is a good site and bookmarked now for future reference.
I read the sad story of Daniel Entwistle, will they ever get to the bottom
of it?
Probably not. I think the Police might be colluding with Social Services -
they work "closely together to speed justice" (sarcasm). There has been
very little about their specific failings.
Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Paul Robson
Post by Ancient One
Yes, it is a good site and bookmarked now for future reference.
I read the sad story of Daniel Entwistle, will they ever get to the bottom
of it?
Probably not. I think the Police might be colluding with Social Services -
they work "closely together to speed justice" (sarcasm). There has been
very little about their specific failings.
Well watch out for the new bill as the government is handing the keys to
social services as they will have priority call now in any child matter,
that means the police, education, health will dance to their tune.

I can see where the police go wrong actually, when a copper becomes a copper
he is indoctrinated at the college and the police system dictate his life,
he is told where he can live, what car he can drive, who he can see or not,
his whole life is one long series of orders.

Now his bosses say "trust social workers and distrust all others", its not
hard to see really is it?

Try and se if a copper can rely on anything other than his notebook....

AO
suspicious minds
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ancient One
Yes, it is a good site and bookmarked now for future reference.
I read the sad story of Daniel Entwistle, will they ever get to the bottom
of it?
I remember the Marie Caldwell incident and one that social services are
always trying to forget.
Its still not good enough for our children though, these people are supposed
to be responsible and any tragedies are unacceptable.
Why isn't the NSPCC aiming their full stop program at social services
AO
NSPCC criticised over Climbié case

David Batty
Friday January 25, 2002

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children has come
under fire from child abuse experts in the wake of embarrassing revelations
about its handling of the Victoria Climbié case.
Social workers and lawyers have called on the charity to clarify whether its
priority is frontline child protection work or high-profile fundraising
campaigns.

The NSPCC has admitted it could have taken "more appropriate action" to
protect Victoria when the child abuse victim was referred to one of its
family centre's in north London on August 5 1999, seven months before her
murder.

Two different versions of a key document about her case emerged at the
Climbié inquiry in December, after its chairman ordered the charity to
provide the original rather than a photocopy.

Counsel for the inquiry Neil Sheldon said the referral papers may have been
changed to "explain away that nothing was done with this referral for months
and months and months".

Lee Moore, former barrister and president of the Association of Child Abuse
Lawyers (ACAL), said the NSPCC was "not the most efficacious organisation in
terms of tackling horrific abuse".

She said it appeared increasingly reluctant to tackle the most sadistic
cases of child abuse in case this adversely affected fundraising efforts for
expensive advertising campaigns.

"ACAL is involved in 34 ritualistic abuse cases dating back to the 1950s,
which the NSPCC has withdrawn its support from. They seem reluctant to get
involved as it might hurt their marketing campaigns," she said.

"What is its priority: children or fundraising?"

Gail Tucker, UK chairwoman of the British Association of Social Workers,
said the NSPCC's handling of Victoria's case appeared "to fall short of even
adequate practice".

"The NSPCC cannot afford to be complacent - especially given its outspoken
criticism of local authority social workers in Victoria's case," she said.

The NSPCC claimed the original documents about Victoria's case had been lost
and details were changed to protect the identity of former staff members at
the Tottenham child and family centre. A spokeswoman said its management
systems had since been strengthened.

She also dismissed Ms Moore's comments, noting that the charity had spent
record amounts on child protection work last year.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/climbie/story/0,10939,640900,00.html
suspicious minds
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ancient One
Post by Ancient One
Yes, it is a good site and bookmarked now for future reference.
I read the sad story of Daniel Entwistle, will they ever get to the bottom
of it?
I remember the Marie Caldwell incident and one that social services are
always trying to forget.
Its still not good enough for our children though, these people are
supposed
Post by Ancient One
to be responsible and any tragedies are unacceptable.
Why isn't the NSPCC aiming their full stop program at social services
NSPCC told to spend its cash on children not campaigning
(Filed: 24/02/2003)




All is not well with the NSPCC, Britain's best known child protection
charity. Criticised in the inquiry into the death of Victoria Climbie, it is
now facing accusations that it does not spend enough money protecting the
children most at risk.




The charity's aggressive and high-profile advertising campaigns ensured it
an income of more than £90 million last year.

But Lord Laming, chairman of the Climbie inquiry, said the work of such
organisations was seriously undermined by a lack of "basic systems and
processes" when it was revealed that the NSPCC's family centre failed to
visit Victoria once in the six months between receiving an urgent referral
and her death from appalling abuse.

Now the charity is accused of spending too much time trying to ban parental
smacking and too little on children at genuine risk of abuse. Civitas, the
Institute for the Study of Civil Society, claims supporters would be
horrified by the sums of money spent on "preaching" campaigns, funds that
would be better spent on front-line work to protect children.

"So many children's charities have cut back on actual child protection to
concentrate on quite tendentious issues," said Robert Whelan, Civitas
director. "I took a very cynical view when, at the time the NSPCC was being
lambasted (by the Climbie inquiry), it launched yet another in-your-face
anti-smacking campaign.

"It was trying to seize the moral high ground when it had failed to do the
very thing we want it to do, intervene to save children like Victoria."
Families First, a family advocacy group, accused the NSPCC of questionable
tactics after the charity published a poll claiming that the majority of
parents supported legal reform against smacking.

"The truth is that it didn't ask what people thought about smacking; it
asked how people felt about 'hitting' children which is altogether
different," said Norman Wells, of Families First.

"It is like asking whether doctors should be allowed to stab their patients.
Everyone would say 'no' but it would be dishonest to draw the conclusion
that there was an overwhelming public support for a legal ban on
inoculations."

The NSPCC strongly rejects such criticism, arguing that its remit is to
prevent harm to children before it happens, as well as afterwards. Any
suggestions that the charity had lost public confidence, was in crisis, or
harboured views that were unrepresentative were "absolutely not true".

"We [tackle child cruelty] by being available on the ground locally, through
our helpline nationally and through public education," said Mary Marsh,
NSPCC director. "Hitting children is wrong and dangerous and the nature of
our present law does not protect children at all."

The society has just announced plans to spend another £1 million on an
advertising campaign by Saatchi and Saatchi to outlaw smacking. Such
campaigns were not a waste of money just because ministers would not support
them, Miss Marsh said.

The NSPCC, which employs 1,800 staff, is the only children's charity with
statutory powers to take action to safeguard children at risk. It can apply
for a court order to place a child under supervision or in care but normally
works with the police and social services to assess risk and deal with it.

It operates 180 child protection teams across England, Wales and Northern
Ireland but spends less than 50 per cent of its budget on "child protection
and preventative services and projects". More than £11 million is spent
fund-raising, while £15 million goes on campaigning and public education,
and £1.7 million on "child protection research".

David Hinchliffe, Labour chairman of the Commons health select committee,
believes it is right for the NSPCC to adopt a more campaigning role against
child abuse and corporal punishment. "With improved statutory services for
child protection, raising awareness is what it should be about," he said.

But NCH, another children's charity, takes a different approach. "We spend
92p in the pound on children's services," said Miriam Solly, NCH director of
communications.

"We are very service-led and subsequently our profile is nowhere near as
high (as the NSPCC's) which I am not arguing is always a good thing."

Miss Marsh remains unrepentant about the NSPCC's approach. "You could not
end cruelty to children just by providing services for a few children in a
few places," she said. "You have got to campaign publicly and it has worked.

"If you go back six or seven years, people used to deny children were abused
on the scale we now know is true."

Miss Marsh, who joined the NSPCC only two years ago, seven months after
Victoria Climbie's death, insisted that the organisation was now "fit for
the future".

Victoria's death had forced the organisation to look critically at itself
and it remained committed to learning lessons from the case.

"No organisation ever wants to be involved in having failed. Sometimes when
things go wrong, people can be shocked and concerned but if they pay
attention to how you deal with it, confidence can increase," said Miss
Marsh.

Members of the public could have absolute confidence that when they referred
children to the NSPCC, the case would be dealt with properly, she said.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/24/nspcc24.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=90316
Paul Robson
21 years ago
Permalink
Post by suspicious minds
The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children has come
under fire from child abuse experts in the wake of embarrassing revelations
about its handling of the Victoria Climbié case.
Social workers and lawyers have called on the charity to clarify whether its
priority is frontline child protection work or high-profile fundraising
campaigns.
Err.... what a bunch of dummies. Their priority is high profile
fundraising campaigns.
...
This is the same ACAL whose founder claims that no cases have ever been
made up for compensation, despite some people admitting that ?
Ancient One
21 years ago
Permalink
Trouble with the NSPCC and NCH is it has been allowed a place at the table
of power.

NSPCC are statutory member's of the ACPC Child Protection conference which
to my mind is a little worrying seeing as they are a charity, not social
workers yet their vote carries.

Perhaps its time to evict the wannabes and hanger's on and tell them to go
back to making money rather than interfering in situations they are little
qualified to act in.

NSPCC also supports Womens Aid which is hyperradical.

AO
IanAl
21 years ago
Permalink
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:37:02 +0100, "Paul Nutteing"
Post by Paul Nutteing
UK Social Service Departments victims' tombstone reads
1945
Dennis O'Neil, 13, was beaten to death by his foster father, Shropshire.
1973
Maria Colwell, seven, died in Brighton after being starved and beaten by her
stepfather, William Kepple.
1984
Jasmine Beckford was starved and battered to death by her stepfather,
Maurice Beckford.
<snip>
Post by Paul Nutteing
RIP
UNLIKE social worker usual practise I have not included in the list
uncorroborated/ hearsay 'evidence'.
Exposing corrupt and incompetent Wiltshire
Social Services personel.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/nutteing3.htm
Surely all this concentration on incompetent social workers will just
lead to more of them being appointed with even greater powers. I think
this is what lead to them inventing the 'satanic abuse' of the subject
line, to show that they are 'doing something'.

I think we could do with less interference by petty officials in
people's private affairs, not more.
Paul Nutteing
21 years ago
Permalink
Returning to original topic
in todays
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1262400,00.html

"The charges were said to involve three girls under 16 who had been in the
care of the Western Isles social services department. It is understood that
the investigation began after one of the girls said something to a carer
that caused her concern. This was relayed to a social worker and, over
several months, allegations of abuse followed. "

Apparently on TV tonight?
"Rosie Waterhouse is a consultant on Newsnight's film, A case of Satanic
Panic?, which is on BBC2 at 11.30pm."
but not in my TV guide or on Digiguide

And also today Victoria Climbie fallout
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3213089
"Police officers involved in the case of eight-year-old Victoria Climbie
before she was murdered are to face misconduct charges, it was announced
today."


What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.freeservers.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

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