Discussion:
Help needed
(too old to reply)
Mel
2003-11-11 18:33:07 UTC
Permalink
I'm currently studying for my BA in Social Work, during a lecture on Monday
I got somewhat confused, I asked for a further explanation, it was a 7 hour
lecture though and information just wasn't going in.

I'm looking at the process of care proceedings, the 'foggy information' I
have is:

Assessment of Risk.

S47 Investigation.

If risk established then an application for Interim Care Order filed and
notice served, it just seems to get muddled from there and goes on and
on...I have timescales written down all over the page, 72 Hours, 8 days
maximum and final hearing no more than 40 weeks from onset.

Does anyone know of the process in diagram format, where does a PPO (section
46) fit in all this...

Thanks everyone ;)
Mike Pellatt
2003-11-11 19:09:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:33:07 -0000, Mel
Post by Mel
I'm currently studying for my BA in Social Work, during a lecture on Monday
I got somewhat confused, I asked for a further explanation, it was a 7 hour
lecture though and information just wasn't going in.
SEVEN HOUR LECTURE ?????? That is utterly barking. Clearly whoever is
running your course has no idea whatsoever of how people learn. Or
they believe the old joke from my student days is how things
should actually be:

"Lecturing is that process whereby the lecturer's notes are transferred
to the students' notes without passing through the brains of either".

Which is clearly what has happened in this case....
Post by Mel
I'm looking at the process of care proceedings, the 'foggy information' I
Me, I'm a mere ex-foster carer so can't answer the question. But if this
is how the legal aspects of child protection are taught, no wonder
social workers don't understand it.
--
Mike Pellatt
Just use R(eply) (from a standards-compliant newsreader)
to email me - address will be valid for a few months after
this posting.
Mel
2003-11-11 23:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Firstly, this one lecture out of many - the actual law part of the course
last's for 6 week - I don't think I said the entire law section of the
course lasted 7 hours.

I want to specialise in child protection, for my first placement I'm working
for the YOT.

I've been reading the Brayne, Martin and Carr (seventh edition), I'm not
sure, I think there is an eighth edition out now. I just thought that
someone might have been able to help.

It'll be another 3 weeks before I can read up again on Child Protection,
reading child protection, juvenile justice, mental health law & the new laws
on adoption was not making things easy.

Cu later
Post by Mike Pellatt
SEVEN HOUR LECTURE ?????? That is utterly barking. Clearly whoever is
running your course has no idea whatsoever of how people learn. Or
they believe the old joke from my student days is how things
"Lecturing is that process whereby the lecturer's notes are transferred
to the students' notes without passing through the brains of either".
Which is clearly what has happened in this case....
Post by Mel
I'm looking at the process of care proceedings, the 'foggy information' I
Me, I'm a mere ex-foster carer so can't answer the question. But if this
is how the legal aspects of child protection are taught, no wonder
social workers don't understand it.
--
Mike Pellatt
Just use R(eply) (from a standards-compliant newsreader)
to email me - address will be valid for a few months after
this posting.
Jonkat
2003-11-12 01:28:12 UTC
Permalink
I think Mike was suggesting that it is daft to expect anyone to sit through
a 7 hour lecture and take it all in. Not that 7 hours was all you got - just
that it's far too much in one go........if they expect you to be able to
absorb it.

Jon.
--
Post by Mel
Firstly, this one lecture out of many - the actual law part of the course
last's for 6 week - I don't think I said the entire law section of the
course lasted 7 hours.
Mel
2003-11-12 19:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Most lectures are in fact 2 hour lectures, this is my second year and this
was by far the longest lecture we had timetabled, the MA students had to
suffer with us as well. There were two lecturers, both from Hull City
Council, both very good and explaining things in great detail. The afternoon
session took quite a toll, probably about 20% of the students decided to
spend a well earned rest (all afternoon) in the campus bar. It was too much
and that seems to be the general views of all the other students I've spoken
to.

Apologies from this end, I misunderstood the reply, I guess I couldn't take
anything else in ;(
Post by Jonkat
I think Mike was suggesting that it is daft to expect anyone to sit through
a 7 hour lecture and take it all in. Not that 7 hours was all you got - just
that it's far too much in one go........if they expect you to be able to
absorb it.
Jon.
--
Post by Mel
Firstly, this one lecture out of many - the actual law part of the course
last's for 6 week - I don't think I said the entire law section of the
course lasted 7 hours.
plr
2003-11-10 19:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Original Message -----
From: "Mel" <***@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: uk.gov.social-work
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:33 PM
Subject: Help needed
Post by Mel
I'm currently studying for my BA in Social Work, during a lecture on Monday
I got somewhat confused, I asked for a further explanation, it was a 7 hour
lecture though and information just wasn't going in.
I'm looking at the process of care proceedings, the 'foggy information' I
Assessment of Risk.
S47 Investigation.
If risk established then an application for Interim Care Order filed and
notice served, it just seems to get muddled from there and goes on and
on...I have timescales written down all over the page, 72 Hours, 8 days
maximum and final hearing no more than 40 weeks from onset.
Does anyone know of the process in diagram format, where does a PPO (section
46) fit in all this...
Hi Mel

Ok firstly, on one hand you are for real, rather than trying to inflame the
situation where many people believe that social workers know nothing of the
law!; On the other hand, I hope you're messing as what you appear to have
covered in one lecture, was the basis of a term of lectures (law lectures
and child care in practice lectures) in my Masters course a few years ago.

You need more than 7 solid hours! You need to have some practice notes/ case
studies; real life dilemmas to look at with the law.

Whatever - this is from the Swansea Uni websit. It is very basic - you
should purchase a good law book (Brayne and Martin I think) to give you the
basics, then back it up with further reading. Anyway - this explains where
the PPO fits in. I hope it helps.

Significant Harm
. Prior to the Act the grounds for state intervention were diverse
. Some 17 routes to care
. Welfare principle alone thought an unrobust criteria
. Fear that orders would be issued because the child would be better
off with foster parents

. Uniform threshold criterion below which state intervention is not
justified
. Harm is defined as ill-treatment or the impairment of health or
development
. Health is physical or mental health and development is physical
intellectual, emotional, social or behavioural development
. The harm must be significant. Significant is not statutorily defined
but comparison with what could reasonably be expected of a similar child is
used.


Initial Intervention
. Emergency Protection Orders (s 44)
- Provides immediate short term protection
- Not to be used as a routine response to suspicion of abuse
- Application is made to a family proceedings court
- Can be made ex parte before a single justice
- Can therefore be obtained outside normal court hours

Who may apply and grounds for the order
. Three separate grounds
- Significant harm
. Grant an order to any person only if satisfied there is reasonable cause
to believe that child is at risk of significant harm if not removed to
accommodation provided by the applicant or does not remain in the place he
is being accommodated
. If granted the local authority will have a duty to investigate under
section 47

- Frustrated Access - enquiries under s47
. order made on application of local authority where it is satisfied that
enquiries under s 47 are being frustrated by unreasonable refusal of access
to the child and such access is needed as a matter of urgency
- Frustrated Access - enquiries by authorised person
. allows an officer of the NSPCC to obtain an order if the court is
satisfied that there is reasonable cause to suspect child is suffering or
likely to suffer significant harm and the authorised person is making
enquiries in to the child's welfare and those enquires are frustrated by
unreasonable denial of access to the child which is needed as a matter of
urgency

Consequences of the order
. operates as a direction to any person to comply with any request to
produce the child to the applicant
. may include a provision requiring a person to disclose information
about the whereabouts of the child
. may authorise the applicant to enter and search for the child named
in the order
. if another child is then found on the premises and grounds for an
order apply the order has effect on him as if it were an emergency
protection order


Police protection s46
. Police officers have a power to take immediate action by removing or
detaining a child without a court order where the significant harm criteria
is satisfied
. No specific powers of entry and search are conferred by the Act but
PACE allows an officer to enter premises without warrant for the purpose of
saving life or limb
. No child may be kept in police protection for more than 72 hours


Long term solutions
. In many cases of suspected abuse no immediate protection is deemed
necessary
. Investigation will be conducted in accordance with the Area Child
Protection Committee procedures
. At various points during the investigation certain legal procedures
may be invoked



Pat
Mel
2003-11-11 23:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Ok firstly, on one hand you are for real, rather than trying to inflame the
Post by plr
situation where many people believe that social workers know nothing of the
law!; On the other hand, I hope you're messing as what you appear to have
covered in one lecture, was the basis of a term of lectures (law lectures
and child care in practice lectures) in my Masters course a few years
ago...


Thanks for that, we actually read several case studies and made decisions
based upon the information we had, unfortunately by the time we got to the
afternoon I think most of us felt drained. I understood the majority of the
lecture, it was just the beginning part of the enquiry that I wanted to
clarify. I was using an excellent diagram 'threshold for significant harm',
it explored the various routes and comparisons (S.31.10), it wasn't quite as
clear though what happened after a referral was made to SSD. I just wanted
to clarify S47 and S17...


thank you ;)
Anthony
2003-11-14 02:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mel,

I am currently in my first year studying for my BA(hons) Social Work degree.
There is a web site that I have found that is very useful, that is dedicated
to social work students. You might all ready have this address but if not
have a look.

http://www.socialwork-students.com/

Good luck

Regards
Kirsty
Post by Mel
I'm currently studying for my BA in Social Work, during a lecture on Monday
I got somewhat confused, I asked for a further explanation, it was a 7 hour
lecture though and information just wasn't going in.
I'm looking at the process of care proceedings, the 'foggy information' I
Assessment of Risk.
S47 Investigation.
If risk established then an application for Interim Care Order filed and
notice served, it just seems to get muddled from there and goes on and
on...I have timescales written down all over the page, 72 Hours, 8 days
maximum and final hearing no more than 40 weeks from onset.
Does anyone know of the process in diagram format, where does a PPO (section
46) fit in all this...
Thanks everyone ;)
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